Curse

Oblivion99 · Jul 14, 2009, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Maybe because it is 2:43 am, or maybe because I am extremely bored, I feel the need to rant about how idiotic my state government is...

I live in Michigan, there are plenty of reasons why this state has gone to shit. The auto industry, idiotic politicians, a terrible education system (not always but on average), and so on, but today, after learning about the state's most recent use of our precious tax dollar, I am completely enraged.

We have round-a-bouts, which are like a 4-way circle drive. Cars can enter one way and exit any one of three other directions. They supposedly save time and energy costs due to the removal of traffic lights (that's what they told us at least when they spent the millions to build them)

But now......OF COURSE, for some reason, they now have to build walk-ways through these drives, costing well over 1.5 million tax dollars (and that is just for TWO of these such walk-ways) so that blind people can walk through the traffic.

These round-a-bouts were NEVER designed with the intent to have people walk through them (in fact, I have NEVER seen a single person in the thousands of times I have drove by one walking through one, let alone a blind person).

Yet, the government feels they need to now spend millions of our tax dollars to cater somehow to blind people that want to walk through areas of heavy traffic, and at the same time rendering these "quick-flow" round-a-bouts useless by allowing people to now easily walk through them.

The great state of Michigan....breathe it in. Maybe 20% unemployment next?

Neo Nugget · Jul 14, 2009, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oblivion99

Maybe because it is 2:43 am, or maybe because I am extremely bored, I feel the need to rant about how idiotic my state government is...

I live in Michigan, there are plenty of reasons why this state has gone to shit. The auto industry, idiotic politicians, a terrible education system (not always but on average), and so on, but today, after learning about the state's most recent use of our precious tax dollar, I am completely enraged.

We have round-a-bouts, which are like a 4-way circle drive. Cars can enter one way and exit any one of three other directions. They supposedly save time and energy costs due to the removal of traffic lights (that's what they told us at least when they spent the millions to build them)

But now......OF COURSE, for some reason, they now have to build walk-ways through these drives, costing well over 1.5 million tax dollars (and that is just for TWO of these such walk-ways) so that blind people can walk through the traffic.

These round-a-bouts were NEVER designed with the intent to have people walk through them (in fact, I have NEVER seen a single person in the thousands of times I have drove by one walking through one, let alone a blind person).

Yet, the government feels they need to now spend millions of our tax dollars to cater somehow to blind people that want to walk through areas of heavy traffic, and at the same time rendering these "quick-flow" round-a-bouts useless by allowing people to now easily walk through them.

The great state of Michigan....breathe it in. Maybe 20% unemployment next?

There's a round-a-bout in my neighborhood, only it's a 3 way, not a 4 way. You're talking about blind people.....is that the excuse they gave you or something? :O

Cebe · Jul 14, 2009, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Wow. I thought America was all about cross-roads and straight lines!

The UK has many, MANY roundabouts. Some towns *cough* Milton Keynes *cough* are well known for them. When you have too many they can be very tiresome, but on the whole, I'm in favour.

I didn't think it would be safe for anyone to cross a road at a roundabout, let alone a blind person. Roundabouts aren't meant to be crossed. Roundabouts are there to make the traffic flow better - not come to a screeching halt whenever a man and his dog wants to cross. What's going to be in the middle for you when you get there? A Caravan? A council-funded flower display? Uncut grass? The National Institute for Braille Research? Oh, Ok then. There is no valid reason for crossing at such an unsafe point...why not just cross the roads at the entrances/exits of the roundabout with traffic light controlled pedestrian crossings.

Silly me. Crossing diagonally is quicker. No sense in burning calories walking around it.

pumpkin pie · Jul 14, 2009, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Millions to build roundabout??? That's a joke, right? its just a circle .... We have very very big roundabouts that has 6 exit points, and tiny little ones, where its only a round block of cement and a pole on it. We have both roundabouts and traffic lights. I like roundabouts more then traffic lights.

Wait till they leave the circle overgrown with weeds :P

Roundabouts are not meant for crossing, unless you are in Vietnam.

I see it as a good thing, building roundabouts, it gives the people works. Someone told me once, whenever the people in their country complaint about lack of job, the government will order some kind of rework to their highway.

However bad you think your state government is, it cannot be any worse than whats happening in my country. Normal existing road, has bad maintainance, the government encourages its people (me/us) to buy cars. The road is flooded with vehicles, at the same time, they failed to build a special lane for 2 wheels vehicles, hence not promoting the use of bicycle or smaller vehicles like motorbike, the prize of petrol is sky high, public transport is badly implemented. Traffic jam is a common sight everyday during rush hour, the rush hour last for 3-5 hours, sometime longer, twice a day. Hence the air is polluted.

To avoid traffic jam, we could always use the "short cut/highway", specially build, so that we could get to our destination in 10-20 minutes, as opposed to stuck in a traffic jam for hours, but you've got to pay and I am not talking about 20-50 cents toll, they cost 1.50 to 2.00, longer road cost even more, driving to visit my parents going there and coming back cost me a total of 50.00 on toll alone! All the companies that build highways are own by someone who held high post in the Government, PS: the company that build the highway also gets to collect the toll, not to mention its people, me has already paid ROADTAX! and these tolls never go away as it should be, for instant, if you use 10 dollars to build a highway, and the company can earn back the 10 dollars, says, in 10 days, legally, after 10 days the highway will become free, but these companies always seem to come up with some excuses to raise the toll instead of getting rid of it. The worse thing is, the government stand by them

Does that made you feel better?

Unlucky Slayer · Jul 14, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Honestly I'd rather have a light. There is a Traffic Circle here in my town and I cant stand it... Way too many idiots. Never fails you'll end up with someone going the wrong way or not doing it correctly at all. And a lot of the time the light would be much MUCH faster at flowing the traffic.

Cebe · Jul 14, 2009, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Millions to build round-about??? That's a joke, right? its just a circle....

I can see why you'd think that. Given the time you're online I think I would be justified in assuming you're from the UK. When we need a roundabout, we grab the nearest dodgy civils contractor, and tell him to get on with the job at the lowest possible cost. This is true for just about any public sector work, with one exception; The Scottish Parliament.

You must remember, this is America we're talking about. Two lanes around that sucker wont be enough! It'll be an 8-lane monster, crossing 5 states, with several McDonalds, Burger Kings and KFC's plonked in the middle. It will need a large control centre, naturally, and lots of men looking out for Osama Bin Laden. These sort of operations cost money.

Oh yes, I nearly forgot. Don't forget the Blind Person Crossings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unlucky Slayer

And a lot of the time the light would be much MUCH faster at flowing the traffic.

Sometimes I think our country might use Roundabouts a little too much, but they do have 2 benefits:

1. They allow traffic to travel in both directions on a main road, with the bonus that traffic turning right (or left, in the US) has priority over traffic travelling "straight on". This can be very handy in some scenarios.
2. They (usually) cut out the need for traffic lights. Herein incurring a higher capital cost, but then the maintenance is lower, and you also have no energy cost incurred by the use of the Electric Traffic Lights. I know, that's a complicated theory. I'll admit that a lot of our Roundabouts at Dual Carriageway junctions, and the like, are traffic light controlled, but when you consider the size of those particular roundabouts, they're more like one big one-way roads anyway.

MisterB · Jul 14, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

I'm disappointed. Clearly the optimal solution is to build pedestrian bridges above the roundabout. This will employ lots of people and stimulate the economy while ensuring diagonal safe passage by pedestrians through the middle of an intersection. Scratch that, people would still have to walk. Escalators and conveyor belts must be incorporated into these bridges. They should be roofed as well, can't have the pedestrians getting wet from rain.

There's a roundabout a few blocks from my house, and a sidewalk that encirles it. Pedestrians walk around it just like the cars do.

I think you'll find many instances of government waste in any government, ever.

Fril Estelin · Jul 14, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cebe

The UK has many, MANY roundabouts. Some towns *cough* Milton Keynes *cough* are well known for them. When you have too many they can be very tiresome, but on the whole, I'm in favour.

Milton Keynes was an "experimental city", but I've never seen one like it before!

In France, I learned from friends in the administration that whenever the "public roads agency" had some money left, they would build small roundabouts to make sure that the government doesn't reduce their budget for the following year. In some small cities, you'd get roundabout upon roundabout in a totally ridiculous manner. But they say it's good for reducing speed (until they built roundabouts you could cross straight!).

Re OP, it could simply be that a specific budget was already set for, say, improving the situation of roads for people with disabilities. Even if it's the case, it could have been seriously misused...

Unlucky Slayer · Jul 14, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cebe

You must remember, this is America we're talking about. Two lanes around that sucker wont be enough! It'll be an 8-lane monster, crossing 5 states, with several McDonalds, Burger Kings and KFC's plonked in the middle. It will need a large control centre, naturally, and lots of men looking out for Osama Bin Laden. These sort of operations cost money.

Oh yes, I nearly forgot. Don't forget the Blind Person Crossings.

Or it could just be a normal circle with one lane around the circle with side lanes for direct right turns.... With a sidewalk in the middle. Like normal people.

Cebe · Jul 14, 2009, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unlucky Slayer

Or it could just be a normal circle with one lane around the circle with side lanes for direct right turns.... With a sidewalk in the middle. Like normal people.

I was being somewhat sarcastic.

However, I'm still baffled by all this talk of "sidewalks" in the middle of the roundabout. I am yet, in my life, to find a person who wants to cross to the middle of a roundabout for the pure and simple pleasure of being there. Unless, of course, you mean a "sidewalk" across the middle? Even then...I'm still not in favour of crossing roundabouts in that manner.

You could nearly be hit by the same car twice on both crossings that way...

Where "walking around the edge" is not practical in the UK we build subways for pedestrians to cross diagonally, usually. If pedestrians start walking all over roundabouts chaos is bound to ensue. Cars hurtle round those things really rather fast sometimes. Allowing pedestrians to cross the middle is an accident waiting to happen.

subarucar · Jul 14, 2009, 09:59 AM // 09:59

We have roundabouts all over the place here, they are mainly on roads that are major, but not major enough to have lights. The only problem is that the NZ road laws are based on the more major cities, so when making the laws for roundabouts they used examples from roads with multiple lanes going each way. The law is that you must indicate to show you are going around the roundabout, then again to show you are leaving it. This works well on these larger roundabouts, but when you come to where I live, the roundabouts are about 3m in diameter. This makes it difficult to indicate, and nobody would have the reflexes to notice the difference between, indicating just one, or both times as required by law. I have seen people fined for this apparent offence. Stupid.

Earth · Jul 14, 2009, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unlucky Slayer

Honestly I'd rather have a light. There is a Traffic Circle here in my town and I cant stand it... Way too many idiots. Never fails you'll end up with someone going the wrong way or not doing it correctly at all. And a lot of the time the light would be much MUCH faster at flowing the traffic.

I don't know, but America doesn't have a lot of roundabouts, does it? Maybe that's why people don't do it the right way.

Here we have quite a lot of roundabouts, and everybody uses them correctly.

Shursh · Jul 14, 2009, 01:24 PM // 13:24

roundabouts are awesome, but there are too many dumb people here in tennessee who would end up getting in a wreck. plus we have our own f-ed up government that likes to waste money on other things, like an abandoned pyramid on a riverbank

Oblivion99 · Jul 14, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

I have not looked into it enough to see exactly how these walk-ways will be built, all I know is that we are paying tax dollars for this walk-way so that blind people can cross the round-a-bouts. It would be bad enough if it was for normal people crossing, but how many blind people are going to be crossing an area of heavy traffic? The answer is a big fat 0. They are afraid of being sued by some blind people who say it is un-safe for the blind....yet fail to admit that it is unsafe for ANYONE who would be dumb enough to cross it, as people were NEVER meant to cross it. How the government even takes their threat seriously for a case that has no real merit is beyond me, but odder things have happened (McDonalds coffee is hot? But there is no warning sign? I'll sue and win millions!) so I guess that's the breaks

Winterclaw · Jul 14, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

They are going to add stop signs to the round about at every turn next... so it's safer for the blind people to cross.

Anyways I would blame the voters of michigan for its troubles. Obama won the state despite for months trying to get the primary vote thrown out. If you think someone who threw out the votes of your own party is a good presidential candidate, you've either got a problem judging character or the wrong set of values. I also heard michigan has a high tax rate... high taxes do not encourage job growth.

Lucky · Jul 14, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Oblivion, are you talking about the Farmington Hills area project?

Black Metal · Jul 15, 2009, 01:11 AM // 01:11

My university (University of California - Davis) has many roundabouts -- for bicycles. I can only imagine how impossible it is to reverse engineer them for blind people to walk through them when they are dodging bloody CARS. That's idiotic and impossible.

I'm sorry Oblivion to hear about the retardation that your elected officials have put forth.

pumpkin pie · Jul 15, 2009, 02:17 AM // 02:17

blind people crossing means a crossing that we and everyone else can use it and so can blind people Oblivion. How many crossing you see that accommodate blind people?

I can tell you how many I've seen in my country, 1. I am not saying there's only one, but the number of it is so little that I hardly ever see them except that one outside a school for the blind.

Oblivion99 · Jul 15, 2009, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky

Oblivion, are you talking about the Farmington Hills area project?

yes I mean this one.

Really, if times were good and all things were just dandy, I wouldn't even care if my tax dollars were being spent for a crossing through heavy traffic for the blind...but....

WE ARE IN A RECESSION!!! >< >< ><

The US isn't doing it's best as everyone knows, and Michigan is doing the worst economically of any state. There are plenty of things better to do with the tax money, and that is mainly why it pisses me off.

I didn't vote these people in, neither did anyone in my family, yet the majority of the voters thought they were the best choice, which makes it even more pathetic.

People need to stop voting strictly because of political party (Michigan is EXTREMELY Democratic), and vote because one person is the better candidate. I have never been for or against one party or the other in general, but some of the Democrats in charge now just have no idea what they are doing. I hope someone who has some actual common sense gets voted in next, though the situation is pretty hopeless at this point.

awesome sauce · Jul 15, 2009, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Bah, and at the same time State is raising tuition due to lack of funding. Obviously blind people need a safe way to walk, but that does seem pretty useless to me. Are you sure there's not more to the story?